Talk:Red Line

Naming

Why exactly is this faction page called "Red Line". The Red Line is an area in the Metro, not the faction. Surely it should just be called Communists. Smish34 21:47, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

The line is called "Sokolnicheskaya", "Red Line" is the name of the faction.

P.S. Don't forget to add a headline next time, it makes replying to you harder than it should be. Komodo Saurian ^[talk] 21:56, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

I belive they are really the army of the Red Line, not just communists, which could be ambiguous and frankly, generic. It was because of these simmilar reases that the Fourth Reich was renamed from Nazis. Chaos ian7 04:17, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

When Khan mentions the peace conference he names the factions as 'Hansa, Reich and Red line'

7s1ll4gk4pU (talk) 17:45, July 6, 2013 (UTC)

Picture

Hey, what's with that second picture in the article? Komodo just recently deleted fan-art from the Savage Cannibals of the Great Worm Cult page, and this picture does not look official. Redsoxusa09 00:51, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

It was uploaded by Wagnike2, the wiki founder but it's say it's source is questionable. I don't know where it's from myself but that being said I think it can stay; after all it doesn't really detreact from the page. It was because of this that I didn't object to the fan-art because it was at least something visual on the page, but, eh, whatever it's anyone's call. Chaos ian7 02:53, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

I like it, I just think that if we're going to keep this picture, we should add back the one of the Great Worm Child Redsoxusa09 02:55, October 31, 2011 (UTC)

First off the image towards the bottom is of a Russian Nazi (the Nazi-fied hammer and sickle is a modern symbol of the Russian Extremist Nationalist movement), not a Communist, secondly it does not look official in the slightest. I'm voting for its removal.

Note to editors

COMMUNISTS IS NOT A PROPER VERB. IF YOU CAPITALIZE IT AGAIN I WILL CUT OFF YOUR COCK AND FEED IT TO A GOAT. <3 A Fellow Stalker 19:56, May 27, 2012 (UTC)

Communist (big C) implies membership to a Communist Party. The little c communist is just the general term. Also, you're a fucking asshole so I really could care less about your internet threats.

Calm the fuck down man we are all friends here. A Fellow Stalker 02:46, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

People need to simmer, eh? Even a joke can easily seem a little overboard with caps lock rage swearing, or direct insulting. As of yet this isn't a bannable offense or anything but keep it cool - everyone. Chaosian 02:49, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

"Calm the f*ck down" says the user who threatened to cut someone's cock off. Ian's got a point, people make stupid mistakes but they're made in good faith, just edit/undo and try not to start an argument. Teddy Picker 03:19, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

It was a simple joke, especially with the <3. Hell, it was even a referance to a book / show. A Fellow Stalker 13:08, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

RussianNaziConceptArt.jpg

Despite the name I saved it as the image is of a Red Line soldier - it doesn't take 20-20 vison to see the symbol on his arm (though I myself had it pointed out to me, I thought it was a Nazi Soldier otherwise). Chaosian 18:12, June 2, 2012 (UTC)

Note

The section "The Communists," contains much opinion which is not relevant to the game and can be held to be controversial.  For example, it states several times that the totalitarian states are a result of the corruption of the "true revolutionaries and communists".  Communism REQUIRES an all-powerful state to realistically enforce and administrate its policies.  The definition of socialism is as follows (according to Merriam-Webster): : "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods."

Now, the author of this section may argue that "true" socialism, as he or she puts it does not have state involvement.  However, it relies on equal distribution, and who is going to decide what is "equal", especially in a nation.

Comminism or socialism requires a statist approach.  Arguments to the contrary ignore all historical, logical, and pragmatic evidence.  But I digress. 

Now, I'm not trying to start a debate, I just ask that the more opinionated parts that are subject to controversy be removed.  Some of these sections are pure political arguments and are completely superfluous and unnecessary to convey the meaning of the article.

Even worse is the statement that in "capitalists [sic] states [...] Bourgeoisie openly exploited (and exploits) the Working Class".  While it is true that in some cases this occurs, it does not happen in all cases.  I hardly believe that workers in the UK, Australia, or the US are "exploited", especially if you compare living conditions, quality of life, etc. to workers 100 years ago.  Again, not trying to start a debate.  I just would like that part removed.

May I also state that this section contains only ONE link to an outside source, and that link only defines "nomenklatura".

Below is an edited section, with controversial, opinionated sections crossed out. I make no arguments of my own, and replace controversial sections with politically neutral and historically factual ones.  I also add in clarifying statements when needed.  Additions are in brackets.

As society has broken down post apocalypse, these communist factions are without pretense and are openly the brutal, totalitarian police states that have resided in all communist controlled countries throughout history after the local revolution had been corrupted. After having overthrown the local bourgeoisie, the corrupted party members used to establish the rule of the nomenklatura, a state bourgeisie [aristocracy] constituted by the bureaucrats who administered the country's government, industry, agriculture, education, [and economy.] system of state capitalism (which is a "fake" version of socialism developed by reactionary governments) while getting rid of "true" revolutionaries and communists at the same time. The only difference between these so-called socialist states and capitalists states is that in the first Nomenklatura disguised itself as the "Protector of Socialism" while abusing the Marxist ideology for its filthy purposes, while in the latter Bourgeoisie openly exploited (and exploits) the Working Class. All are [theoretically] made to earn the same [regardless of contribution] and have their meager belongings ripe for the taking to "distribute" (re: confiscate/seize) as the head of the regime sees fit. Thus, people are seen bargaining whatever spare ammo they have for food, and the officers assigned to run their outfits are seen using their power to torture and pillage their subjects. The people often display their cynicism and emptiness. They are neutral towards the player while in freeplay mode in the Armory, but upon entrance to the Armory and outside the Armory, they are entirely hostile. Their main base of operations is within the Armory settlement, where most of the recruitment and weapons manufacturing occurs within the Metro system.

Stalker76.94.73.185 04:57, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

A fair edit. We're here to present factual infomation based of the fictional universe of Dmity Glukhovsky - not go off and present a very judgy examanation on how the system works. That said, it would be pretty cool if you could find a page on this wiki (or most wikia wikis, actually) that has more than one link (or just another one that has a single one) to an outside source.  Chaosian   06:08, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

"The Red Line uses a poorly trained, mostly conscript army that is high in numbers to rush enemy positions" - maybe in game, and in the first period of 1941. infact, i can say it was the other way around, where in 1945 wehrmacht throwed bad equipped citizens with a single shot launcher against infantry, but you probably ignore it, and as always, will belive to various anti-soviet propaganda that telling you what they want you to think

Stations

The article claims that the Red Line controls Biblioteka Imeni Lenina station; unless this station was captured at some point following 2033 or the events of Last Light (which would seem improbable, given the crushing defeat handed to them by the Rangers at D6), this is untrue, as that station is part of Polis in both the video game and the novel. The station is strictly a Red Line station, although it has walkways that connect to Borovitskaya and Aleksandrovsky Sad. 

Also, it mentions that it "directly controls 13 stations;" judging by the video game map, and eliminating those stations which it is explicitly known to not control, or those that are impossible to control, i.e., Vorbyovy Gory, Universitet, Prospekt Verndskogo, and Yugo-Zapadnaya (which I've eliminated because Vorbyovy Gory is an above-ground station located underneath Luzhinski Metro Bridge, which would presumably have been destroyed in the war or collapsed afterward, thus rendering the stations beyond, which are supposed to belong to the University (a/k/a "Emerald City"), inaccessible), I make this 14 stations in all. If we go by the novel map, it looks like 16 stations, although if we assume that the three stations north of Skoloniki are not "directly controlled," we can square that number with the map. However, we know that the Red Line essentially controls Kuznetsky Most, and on both maps, this station is not clearly marked as belonging to the Reds, unlike Prebrazhenskaya Ploschad', Cherkizovskaya, and Ulitsa Podbelskogo. Furthermore, the in-game map at D6 seems to point to different levels of control over various stations by the Reds; the large, bright icons would suggest direct control, and the the smaller icons would suggest stations that have puppet administrations (although this also contradicts what we know about the Reds, as Kuzntesky Most ("Armory," on the map in question) is, at least theoretically, not formally under their control. However, this map also includes stations that are impossible for the Reds to control, and are, in fact, known to be controlled by the University. Perhaps a source for this claim could be given so that it can be substantiated? Redriotgrrrl (talk) 23:29, July 25, 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. Remember that you can always change what you think is appropriate on each page as long as you provide a valid explanation for it (and if it won't fit in the edit summary, just use it to notify others that you will explain it fully on the talk page). I've checked the maps in my books and in Metro 2033 it shows 16 stations, in Metro 2034 it shows 16 as well, finally in Metro 2035 the Red Line is shown as controlling 15 stations. The problem is that the game versions of the map change things slightly - taking some stations away from the Reds and giving them other ones. In any case, whoever wrote that section initially clearly made a mistake and regardless of whether we stick closer to the novels or games for this description, your version makes more sense either way so I've edited the article to reflect what you've suggested. --Karmazynowy Wilk (talk) 07:38, July 26, 2016 (UTC)

I know. I just wasn't sure what to put, so I didn't make any edits. I'm aware that the game versions of the map change, I was merely attempting to reconcile all of the available information; 2035 is inaccessible to me due to a language barrier (I don't speak any of the languages in which it's currently available), so I wasn't sure what the correct number was. I think 14 is a good compromise; it's pretty clear that they control everything from Sportivnaya to Preobrazehsnskaya Ploschad', but I've not seen any indication (other than the map) that they control Cherkizovskaya or Ulitsa Podbel'skogo. Thanks. I'll be a little less hesitant to make edits in the future. Redriotgrrrl (talk) 16:24, July 27, 2016 (UTC)

No problem, it is always nice to see more competent and dedicated users here, especially since they've gotten rare - this wiki is quite inactive nowadays (I'm the only admin still checking in regularly tbh). Anyway, thanks again for your input. --Karmazynowy Wilk (talk) 19:08, July 27, 2016 (UTC)

20 red stations

The Reds have 20 stations. This map   shows 19 of them+ 1 was reannexed later.